Author Topic: Is 2win650 a series boat  (Read 10656 times)

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Offline Swedish Viking

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Is 2win650 a series boat
« on: August 02, 2009, 10:29:51 AM »
I am out buying a mini and saw the 2win650 for sale on classemini.com.

However, I heard it didn't get accepted as a series boat, so if to race it it would have to be as a proto. And also that they stopped the production.

Is this true?

Offline DRYachts

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Re: Is 2win650 a series boat
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2009, 12:52:47 PM »
Hi Viking,

I was involved in the 2win650 project.
The project as we started it was terminated because of a couple of problems.
The main reason to stop the original project was that the yard could not built the boats to the intended costprice, the boats were simply to expensive.

DRYachts and the PRO3 team ordered the first 4 boats to start the serie and do the series ratification.
The 2win650 713 accumulated the ratification miles in the 2008 races when the yard decided to change the construction/buildsystem to address the costprice problem.
Consequence of this was that our boats became effectively protos and would never be part of any potential official 2win650 series.
The yard has decided to continue the 2win650 but without PRO3 and DRYachts. So I have no knowledge of the current status of the project. If you or anybody else are seriously thinking about buying a new 2win650 I strongly recommend to contact me before.

The boats for sale are the PRO3 boats, the 712 and 713.
They are extremely well build and are interesting platforms to develop or use as 'adventure' or 'cruising' protos for a very good price.

I sold the 714 to a client who new the boat is a 'failed' seriesmini.
I am discussing with him the potential development of his boat under the protorules, 2 meter keel, carbonmast, etc. 

Hans Rademaker

 

Offline Jürgen

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Re: Is 2win650 a series boat
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2009, 19:22:01 PM »
Hi Hans,
good to see you.
(I´m one of the Electricians, working for Race2win)
As far as I know they will present a 650 at the Hanseboot fair, a boat much lighter than yours...
See you in Hamburg?

Best wishes

Jürgen

Offline DRYachts

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Re: Is 2win650 a series boat
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2009, 09:56:07 AM »
Hallo Jürgen,

Is that my boat, the 715?

I would be surprised if they are able to present a boat at the Hanseboot show but you never know!

Give my regards to Christian.

Hans

Offline Jürgen

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Re: Is 2win650 a series boat
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2009, 15:23:32 PM »
Hallo Hans,

regards back from Christian.
I do not know which boat they will present at the Hanseboot, I only know they are planning to present a Mini.

Jürgen

Offline DRYachts

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Re: Is 2win650 a series boat
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2009, 08:22:20 AM »
Hi Jürgen,

can only be mine.
That they can finish this boat is highly unlikely considering that I had to buy and bring them a keel to finish the 714.

Hans


Offline NicoG

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Re: Is 2win650 a series boat
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2009, 19:14:39 PM »
Ps, you mention extremely well build Hans, but I got another notion from the first boats.
As the sailing crowd in France knows this, it will be very hard for the yard to get that feeling away, even IF they built now top notch boats. SO I think it will difficult to become a serie boat, and even when they get to be a serie to become a succesfull one is very hard and takes money and marketing aspects. BUt if you like the style and not performance you should not be bothered by the last aspect.

Offline DRYachts

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Re: Is 2win650 a series boat
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2009, 21:02:51 PM »
Hi Leo,

despite some problems in the beginning 712,713 and 714 are pretty well built.
When sailing the boats, we modified and reinforced were it was needed.
713 proved that in the Dos Oceanos race.
A lot of upwind sailing in big waves with plenty wind and we had no problems whatsoever with that boat. She held out perfectly.

I sailed 714 in the last couple of weeks and she is fast in the current configuration. Not a bad boat at all!

I don't think the yard is trying to get this design ratified as series boat any longer.
To expensive to build for them and no program to develop.
I am aware of the costs and other aspects associated with the ratification process to get a seriesmini, without an outside investor and capable projectmanager, Race2win will never be able to get this done.

Hans

 

Offline NicoG

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Re: Is 2win650 a series boat
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2009, 20:22:45 PM »
Another little snatch could be that if boats have a little problem structurally, the can (do not say its like that) solve this easy by adding lamination. Which in turn could make the mini overweight, but bring a scale with you and you can check that easy.... problem would be to get a real weight from the yard etc. I mean in what configuration is the design weight etc... BUt actually a bit overweight is not that bad if your goal is to have fun and I think guys who think they are top material will get a Pogo2 or Nacira anyway...

Offline WayneH

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Re: Is 2win650 a series boat
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2009, 01:31:16 AM »
Does anyone have any updated information about the 2win650, are they still being built, what are people hearing/ saying about any problems with the boat? Is the builder going to try get them qualified as a series boat?

Offline Geronimo

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Re: Is 2win650 a series boat
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2009, 11:08:10 AM »
Hi,

there is a mini shown at the hanseboot. I think it is No. 730 or 780, I can't remember the second number. The boat is brown metallic and the price is about 60.000 €.

Rolf

Offline Ubik no more 245

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Re: Is 2win650 a series boat
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2009, 11:12:57 AM »
It is No. 780 there is a picture on http://www.sailinganarchy.de/ scroll down.

Wow 60.000 € is this the price for the complete boat with everything?

Offline DRYachts

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Re: Is 2win650 a series boat
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2009, 12:38:50 PM »
780 is the original 715.
I don't think that this boat is really a series compliant mini and it is certainly different in construction to 712/713/714

The series ratification I was involved with was for the original boats.
Race2win abandoned this program and we were axed from the project.
No idea what they are up to now but I never heard that Race2win started a new ratification program for their new version of the 2win650.



Hans

Offline NicoG

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Re: Is 2win650 a series boat
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2009, 18:12:32 PM »
My info, they are dead, some people are milking it. If you find out something else let me know.
THis is one of a few attempts, maybe they could make a special class for series projects that failed and have to race as proto.

In short, there are more failed projects then succeded ones, to build ten. And really succesfull, non so far since introduction Pogo2. THere are not many yard getting to 100 series build, thats is succesfull. Moderate succes with break even of costs, nice profit (10%), happy building crew, new project is financed, etc takes 50 boats in 3 yrs. Everything else is financial not sustainable (on its own).

(this is my  piece I repeat so now and then, so people (builders and buyers) know a bit of the risk.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 18:14:53 PM by Leov »