Author Topic: And racing a proto top level got 19.000 euro more expensive if my info is right.  (Read 4273 times)

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Offline NicoG

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AG (members meeting) in December can go against it. Not likely, but can happen

Offline KeithW

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AG should be pretty interesting this year with the proposed changes to sails for series boats as it is!!!!

Offline NicoG

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Yeah, limiting sails, always difficult. Looks like the CM finds that too much is spend on series.
Always a difficult subject. IF you find/have the money you will spend it.

Offline gregzore

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I am pretty new here, but as someone who spends way too much time working with electronics and control systems, 25k is a lot more than this type of system should cost.  I have been speccing out a similar system as a home-build project.  For example, a mini-laptop costs about 350 euro and has more than enough processor power to run control algorithms for an autopilot.  Accelerometers are actually one of the more expensive parts of the system, depending on what level you want, they can cost 1000 euro each, but can also be found much cheaper, for example the built in accelerometers in the I-phone.  Wind, speed, gps, etc. instruments all have pretty standard prices in the couple thousand euro range, and commercial software shouldn't cost much more than 1000 euro, I was thinking more about programming my own software.  As far as energy consumption, the laptop is very low (12 hours on a laptop battery).

I figure that a less robust system should cost well under 10k euro even if commercial software is used.

I suppose the only issue remaining would be any class rules, as a laptop would definitely be illegal if one isn't allowed to get info from a datalogger (the laptop being a data-logger).  But, then again any system that steers to apparent wind and has some sort of adaptive control has to have some sort of at least short term data-logging capabilites.

Offline KeithW

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Given that the iphone has built in GPS and compass how long before there is an app allowing its use as a course computer!!!!

Offline NicoG

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Add R&D, after sales service, pre sales cost, sales cost, dealership profits, marketing etc etc it all adds up.
And of course 15 % profit.

And you want a robust system even if 25 K, not a lesser one that fails at 10 K so you need two of them :)

Offline Ubik no more 245

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My guess is that the algorithms used in the NKE are the reason why it is so expensive. If it would be easy to make such good algorithms why don't just Raymarine do it?

Offline KeithW

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Craig Horsefield offered to update there software for free they refused they consider it is it too smaller a market to worry about. They consider there product is fine already for the market it is aimed at.

I have to say, I used to use an S1G and upgraded to 2 SPX5 systems. The SPX5 seemed to work far better than the S1G in spite of fact I am assured they use the same software. I also had no problems at all where as several of the NKE people did.

There was never a time when the pilot couldn't cope when I think it should have done. So personally for the cost and simplicity I would go again with Raymarine. I also managed qualifier/select/pavois and transat without burning out a RAM!!! Despite running it at very heavy gain for quite prolonged periods!!!

Offline gregzore

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On the topic of the iphone, they have accelerometers (could potentially help with wave surfing), and somebody even managed to get one to measure windspeed... using the microphone :)

Now, if only they could disable the iphone's mobile phone functions.

Offline NicoG

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So Keith, do I understand that Craig did offer Raymarine a software update ?

Funny about the S1g and SPX5, I was told too it was exactly the same too, but some bugs ironed out of the software.
Normal 4000 rams or GP version ? (I believe normal is good enough)

Offline KeithW

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Yes I believe Craig did make the offer but as I say they don't consider us to be a big enough part of there market.

Yes I used standard (NOT GP) 4000 rams, I had 2 complete systems ie computer, display, rudder reference unit, compass and ram, I rigged up 1 set to each tiller so that I always had a ram and display on the windward side, I fed NMEA GPS, speed, wind etc from my Tacktick instruments into each but no NMEA out so they could not talk to each other.

1 RAM was bought new at the start of the season, the other ram was bought second hand from James Tingle, they were both serviced before the transat and needed nothing other than a grease up so I guess between them they have done about 7000 miles of sailing this year and still work fine, only mod I have done to them is cover them in white sticky back sailmaterial to try to stop them getting too hot in the sun!!!!