Author Topic: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race  (Read 31962 times)

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Offline CAN415

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2007, 02:15:16 AM »
Hi Duncan

The traffic routes issue was raised in a phone conversation I had yesterday with one Mini owner.  I threw the option into the pool thinking he may want it there when it comes to a vote of some kind.  My preference is to sell everyone a Sea-Me and stay with the routes you, Guy and I have proposed.

Anyone want a Sea-Me?

Adrian
So...what is the solution for traffic lanes then? I think the whole traffic lane issue is not a big an issue as it might seem. I am not sure changing the route for one person is a logical thing to do we have contacts with the Canadian Navy a dsicussion has already taken place for an escort out of the Straights.

Offline Craig

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2007, 03:05:59 AM »
Depending on which race we manage coast or Hawaii my options are, I will do them if they happen but I need to know it is going to happen or I will ship the boat to Europe. Traffic is not an issue leaving straights from Victoria as we will be out in short order and dep on start time in daylight. My issue with traffic is San Fran. Approaching this worn out and at night can be an issue. There are other ports that have great YC on coast like Santa Cruz. Great place and less traffic.  FYI on my recent sail short of allot of traffic leaving Seattle I did not have shipping till San Francisco. Some Fishing boats on Washington coat but past 80 miles out nothing. But even 100 mile out from SanFran I did see get allot of commercial shipping.
Craig
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Offline CAN415

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2007, 03:28:48 AM »
Craig

I will defer to Guy as he is the point man in California, really it is about logistics, hosting and support at all the stops. I agree that the traffic is not that big an issue out of Victoria, done it a bunch of times and unless you are drifting around endlessly it shouldn't be a signficant issue. San Fran, never had a huge problem there I am more concerned down long Beach way.

Offline r.finn

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2007, 19:50:34 PM »
The way I see it shipping trafic is just a reality of what we do.  The Europeans deal with it, the East Coasters deal with it, and you can only do so much to avoid it, so... 

Duncan, I swear to you that the Hanelei Bay thing is not that big of an issue.  Small boats have been doing this race for decades with out much fuss. 

Craig, say yes to Solo Transpac and I'll say yes right now.

-Ryan



Offline CAN415

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2007, 22:09:19 PM »
Ryan

OK, so who wants do whatever race??? I am not going to be able to do a Hawaii Race no matter how much I would like to, I might be able to do The West Coast Race but will for sure be part of organizing the West Coast Race if there are enough entries, either way people need to pull their fingers out and voice their preference.

DG

Offline r.finn

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2007, 00:38:04 AM »
I agree.  What else do you want me to say?  I've said which one I want to do.  I guess I will start e-mailing folks. 

-Ryan

"I hold here, in my hand, a list of names"  Just kidding :)

Offline CAN415

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2007, 01:51:48 AM »
I agree.  What else do you want me to say?  I've said which one I want to do.  I guess I will start e-mailing folks. 

-Ryan

"I hold here, in my hand, a list of names"  Just kidding :)

Ryan,

Guy and I went through the emailing/phoning thing a couple of months ago and the consesus was a West Coast Race. Some of the underlying resons for the shorter race (approx 1200 miles total) was to provide a race for the West Coast Minists that they felt comfortable with and would draw the largest amount of entries, to provide exposure for the class (3 ports), allow a better chance for media coverage and a better opportunity for a Race sponor(s) and for individual sponsors for participants.

I am not saying the mini race to Hawaii is bad, I want us all to think what is best for the class development. The last group of emails I received from some of the West Coast minists and minists waiting for their boats was no to a Hawaii race simply due to the fact that there is not enough time for them to feel sorted out for a 2100 mile race, so that leaves what is realistically 8 potential participants for a  Hawaii race down to 3 or 4. The West Coast Race had a seriously interested group of 6 and quite possibly 8, in the end it could be just 3 or four for two races. So those are my thoughts on the subject.

Now I have to figure out how to route out the large area of wet balsa around the "small hole" without having to rip up the deck.

DG
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 21:14:34 PM by CAN415 »

Offline Sam Mini-Sailor.US

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2007, 03:16:49 AM »
Well I have been silent up to now.... I know that is hard to believe.

But I really want to do the SHTP 08. My next thought is "But is the fleet ready to do it?"

While talking to Andy Able this week, the discussion focused on what it would mean to send out a poorly prepared fleet as a 'class race'. We both agreed it would be a disaster for the North American Mini Class if there was a problem.

As much as I want to go to Hawii, I think there are very few skippers that will have a boat and have it sorted out by July of next year for a 2100 mile offshore race.

Damn I hate typing this in, but it has to be said.

Sam
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Offline NicoG

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2007, 10:35:57 AM »
Duncan, balsa problem, put a shape like an Allen key in the drill and smash it up.
Only works on small places though. BIg spots needs a hole saw on the inside lamination...

Offline Craig

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2007, 18:01:15 PM »
Work and more importantly Visa issues (I need to naturalize to the US) prevented me from trying to get a DCQ for Azores 08 so I would like a long race, but would do any race that helped US class mini.

Time wise both races are probably going to result in similar number of days if you consider time for stop over and extra towing to or wonderful PNW and BC. That is if you fly back from Hawaii ASAP. Getting the boat back shipping it is really the only option. We could break up some trailers and cradles and send them out all stacked together to save costs. There is some barge traffic to Hawaii that you can often ship on. Has anyone shipped a small boat back from the islands? I have some leads here I am going to follow up.

Preparation is very important. I suggest that we have 0 deviations from class mini requirements. Andy is correct; under preparation is a very bad problem. Even at the fastnet this year there where eu boats that where under prepared and had more trouble passing security. However in general they are all in great shape. 

From my last sail I can say that the coast can throw up allot of bad weather and waves so I think difficulty wise Hawaii is longer but similar in level needed.

What ever race we do we should pool funds and bring out a representative of classe mini to over see us and see that we are all for complete compliance with the classe


Craig
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Offline phoenix

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2007, 20:42:49 PM »
Hi all,

I've hesitated replying as my '08 season is a bit up in the air and I can't commit to being able to do either of the suggested races at this point. But I just wanted to add a quick clarification regarding my comments to Sam about preparation and readiness...

The key difference between the two proposed races is that the SHTP falls into the Classe Mini category of having at least one leg of over 1,000NM. That has a bearing on the required safety gear on board, as well as the qualification requirements. It would be the same as the Azores or the Transat itself, requiring a 1,000nm qualifier course as well as 1,000nm in races prior to being able to enter. I know it wouldn't be "official" since it's not USCM organized, but I think it's worth noting how seriously they take such long offshore races in Europe.

When talking to Sam, I didn't mean to imply that the U.S. fleet could not or would not be prepared in terms of having sound boats or good skills, it was just in terms of completing the CM qualification requirements for such a race.

All that said, I personally think the SHTP would be great fun and it would otherwise be my preference, but if we want to do something as a Class and develop the fleet, I would vote for a coastal race. Baby steps at first... :-)

PS. As an example, to get into the '08 Azores race I will still have to sail another 800NM of races (I got 200NM credit for the MAP) and another qualifier before next July. The fact I sailed 4,000 miles last year honestly doesn't matter - the intent of the rules is as much about shaking down the new boat as it is about the skipper.

Offline CAN415

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2007, 21:13:52 PM »
Duncan, balsa problem, put a shape like an Allen key in the drill and smash it up.
Only works on small places though. BIg spots needs a hole saw on the inside lamination...

Funny how I didn't have a problem doing the hole saw business onother people's boats but now I am trying to find another solution! lol but I think Iwill be pulling out my hole saw.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2007, 21:45:04 PM by CAN415 »

Offline Sam Mini-Sailor.US

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2007, 21:20:26 PM »
Sorry I miss quoted you Andy.

Thanks for the clarification.
Sam Ausmus III

Check out my new business www.thirdcoastcomposites.com

Check out my website www.mini-sailor.us

If interested in shorthanded sailing www.sos-tex.info

If interested in Mini Transat boats www.miniclassus.com

Offline r.finn

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2007, 00:05:26 AM »
Simply because I don't know who we are talking about, what boat/sailors are we talking about?  They seem to be the majority, yet I don't know who they are.  Do they have boats?
 I mean we've heard many people on this forum say they'd rather sail to Hawaii, but question whether the fleet is ready.  Who is the fleet?  Everyone on the forum saying they'd prefer Hawaii is qualified, so...

Having done the Solo Transpac I can assure you that there is no safer solo race of similar distance.  The most dangerous feature of the last race was actually the lack of wind.  This is a race that is all about avoiding light air as opposed to avoiding heavy air.  There is very litte to compare to a race that starts in the Bay of Biscay.  I suspect the Transpac course is significantly safer than the course down the West coast.  I mean, that is where the heavy weather is!  Everyone will tell you the hardest part of Solo Transpac is getting offshore to the trades.  It is a consistant feature and not one limited to the Bay area.

I don't think having Classe Mini recognize our miles should be a priority at this point.  We just need another class race in North America. 

Regardless of the race MCUS chooses, there is less than a year so you better start planning right now, because they are both big commitments.

Anyway, I am going to sign up for the Solo Transpac.  Even if it means sailing in PHRF (YUCK)!

-Ryan


Offline Mr Hollywood

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Re: 2008 West Coast Offshore Mini Race
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2007, 17:24:52 PM »
Sorry for being MIA during a long stretch of this thread.  The Rolex Big Boat Regatta is upon us and I've been busy.  In fact, just heading out the door for all-day practice.  I'll post a longer response when I get back this evening.

However, it is possible that I can work with John Saul and my local SF contacts on getting a decent deal on shipping the boats back from Honolulu if the consensus is Hawaii.  We shipped a 34ft boat back via Matson in 2000 which involved shipping 4 trailers out on the RORO, loading the boats, then putting them on the RORO back.  This is more expensive than putting the boats in a container on cradles but means you don't have to drop the keel and pay to have the boat put in a container with a forklift, which can take some time (and you're charged by the hour).

I would prefer not to start those conversations until we have at least a tentative consensus.

With respect to coming into SF Bay at night it is, in fact, no big deal.  Most shipping traffic moves during daylight hours and there is ample room on either side of the approach.  I've come back in at night from the Farallones and Santa Cruz without even raising my pulse.   I'm not saying you shouldn't be diligent but it is a fairly wide approach, even in the fog if your GPS is working.  Ditto with Juan de Fuca.  When I came in from the south I stuck to the WA coast side and just stayed off the beach in deep water all the way to Port Angeles, while bulk carriers streamed by in both directions.  Out bound out of Victoria you hug the shore until you make your crossing, at which point you simply pay close attention.  People cross the TSS all the time without any trouble.

G.