Poll

Lion batteries, vote only if you have a mini or plamn to campaing 0709. Response in topic for reason would be appreciated. Read topic first to see pro and cons.

Yes, for both serie and proto
5 (25%)
Yes for proto, no for serie
5 (25%)
Yes for proto, i do not care about serie
0 (0%)
Yes for serie not for proto
0 (0%)
No for series, but i do not care if protos use them
2 (10%)
No not allowed
8 (40%)
I do not care.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Author Topic: Ag december Lion Batteries  (Read 9158 times)

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Offline NicoG

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Re: Ag december Lion Batteries
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2006, 18:48:08 PM »
I am for it for proto only if they are 2000 Euro a set, yep i have my limits :) Its expensive enough.
The more charge you can get from a Lion, is that quantifiable, so maybe you can do with less then 200 Amp, and so make them cheaper ?

Offline Sam Mini-Sailor.US

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Re: Ag december Lion Batteries
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2006, 03:26:36 AM »
Leo,

If the AG outlaws genset's in the future, then a high efficiency solar panel and LION deep deep Amp Hour batteries will be $ competitive with current wet battery technology, solar panel and fuel cell back up.

Sam
Sam Ausmus III

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Offline NicoG

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Re: Ag december Lion Batteries
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2006, 11:28:47 AM »
he,
Now:
battery wet is 200 Euro, generator is 900 Euro, solarpanels normal 800.
total 1900

replace gen for fuelcell add 3500 Euro-900

4500 Euro

lion batterys 5000,
solarpanel hihg output, 1200 Euro

6200 Euro

But i bet a lot will go with Feulcell to.
add 3500

9200 Euro...

(you can do without feulcell, but will you be able to use nke in hard race mode, i doubt it)

Offline GDesign

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Re: Ag december Lion Batteries
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2006, 13:17:11 PM »
I go for No... not at all..
i think it is not mony well spent. I dont actually think like others which state this is only a 1, 2% of the proto value. For me is like 10% of the boat or even more with the fuel cell!
I think evolving in the design of the class is vary good but a change like this makes harder to get in the mini scene or having extra weight compared to the sponsored sailors.
On the other hand things to improve design should be allowed before batteries... lets get titanium which i think it should be allowed at least for the keel pin and attachment plate! this would increase safety ...
only my view... no point in spending a little fortune in batts

Offline mathieu verrier

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Re: Ag december Lion Batteries
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2006, 14:39:59 PM »
hello,
When I raised the difference in price between carbon and glass, it was not to say that this kind of things should be banned, i own a carbon proto... But to me, there are investments that are worthwile, in terms of development and in terms of price, and some should be regulated because they are increasing the general costs. Of course lighter batteries may enhance security, no doubt but not every one can afford to spend that much on batteries and thus, it induces much more discrepancies between boats both in terms of secu and performances (than having a carbon hull compared to a glass one). more over the benefits in terms of weight are not so big because it is hard to go under a 300 g cloth no matter the fiber used. The benefits is in terms of stiffness. Thus, for compulsory security items, the class should regulate for both series and proto. As opposed to this point of view if one wants to develope a self supported wing mast, which is probably very expensive, fine because he has an idea of something that may improve his boat and make the difference.

Offline NicoG

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Re: Ag december Lion Batteries
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2007, 21:13:51 PM »
They are allowed for serie and proto...

Offline Ubik no more 245

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Re: Ag december Lion Batteries
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2007, 07:09:41 AM »
Hi everybody,

I think that decision was wrong. And it was against the vote of the members at least against the members who attended the AG.
This decision is based on what a marketing guy for lithium ion batteries says. He sells the products so he won't say anything bad about it. (you can read it herehttp://www.wmaker.net/classemini_en/index.php?action=article&numero=340)

Bye Dominik
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 07:12:27 AM by Ubik245 »

Offline antoine

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Re: Ag december Lion Batteries
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2007, 07:20:10 AM »
All  this is wrong;Leo ,can you translate, please?
     " la  jauge mini est une jauge open;tout ce qui n'est pas interdit est autorisé,rien dans la jauge actuelle ne l'interdit,et on ne peut pas changer la jauge entre 2 transats
      par ailleurs le vote de l'assemblée générale était uniquement consultatif"
      thank  you
antoine

Offline Ubik no more 245

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Re: Ag december Lion Batteries
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2007, 07:45:16 AM »
Hi Antoine,

ok you are right about the thing that everything is allowed if it is not forbidden. But why do you ask at the AG? I really had the feeling that the voting there was quite clear, so classemini could have forbidden these batteries. And when I read the report of the Réunion du CA of the 11th november it seems to me like someone who wants to make money with these batteries was consulted. That is a bit strange for me.

Normally I think it is good that the rules don't change in a campaign. But here it would be good to make it. Just my opinion nothing you have to think that it is right.

Sorry Antoine if I made you angry, but my campaign cost are already higher than I can afford normally, and now these costs are rising again.

Bye Dominik
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 07:48:50 AM by Ubik245 »

Offline NicoG

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Re: Ag december Lion Batteries
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2007, 10:57:25 AM »
Translation:
"the mini rules is an open rule ; everything that is not forbidden is allowed , and in the present rule the its not forbidden, one cannot change the rules between 2 transats 
     and the vote of the general assembly was solely consultative

So the debate is about:
When new technology comes around, its allowed till its banned.
When do you ban it ?

SOme sailors had it already, that was i think the problem.
Looking at Ecover in the Acores, he had problems with his system of Lion.
So Dominik, maybe a good way of thinking: stay with lead acid, spend the money you have on new sails, and beat the guys with the lighter batteries...