Author Topic: Lions & Cells  (Read 3282 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Adrian

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
    • www.northamericanminitransat.com
Lions & Cells
« on: November 09, 2007, 21:21:17 PM »
Hi All

There must be quite a few people who now have experience with the Lion batteries & Max Fuel Cells.

Apart from Clay's fire, before his Lion batteries were installed on the boat, have there been any battery failures, fires, problems while sailing?

The Max fuel cell requires a near vertical installation - have there been any problems with these cells following knock-downs, roll-overs, exposure to seawater  etc?  Are the small fuel containers disposable or re-fillable,  are the large containers of fuel open or sealed?  Has spillage been an issue?

Leaving the cost arguments aside, for a moment, how do they perform, are they reliable & are they safe enough ?  Has anyone taken any special measures for Mini installations such as gimballs, extra water-proofing, methanol storage etc?

Are the warranties being honoured?  Are Genasun & Max the sole suppliers?

Adrian

Offline BW

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Lions & Cells
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2007, 05:43:15 AM »
There's an interview with Isabelle J. on thedailysail.com where she shows her fuel cell is suspended by webbing or rope-- apparently as a form of gimbal.  Its also interesting to note that she used lead-acid batteries, and I doubt it was for lack of budget.

Offline thorsten

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • www.thorstenjunge.de
Re: Lions & Cells
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2007, 11:37:13 AM »
I have heard that Lions are banned from next year on anyway. Is it only a rumour or something substantial in change of rules?

Offline NicoG

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2005
    • minitransat650.com
Re: Lions & Cells
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2007, 12:32:40 PM »
December we will know.

Offline zde

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Lions & Cells
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2007, 20:54:15 PM »
Max manual says:
Particularly for sailing boats, make sure that the equipment
is not subjected during navigation to angles greater than:
Along the transverse axis, in continued operation:
35° <10 minutes : 40°.
Along the longitudinal axis, in continued operation:
20° <10 minutes: 35°.
When these values are exceeded, the MFC automatically switches to Safety mode until
the angular conditions return to normal.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 21:06:52 PM by zde »

Offline Yves330

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Lions & Cells
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2007, 18:00:34 PM »
On Li-Ion subject....
- Installed a test system beginning 2007 (22 kg total in a water-tight compartment)
- Voltage range : 11 to 12.6 V. No modification of the installation (no DC-DC converter).
- Several full discharge cycles done so far. A real 200Ah could be driven out each time (about 4 days autonomy)
- Negligible self discharge
- I never use a AC-line charger, only solar panels. (most of the Li-ion problem I know are due to chargers failure)
- Total price 1700 € including VAT, custom duties & transport.

I would hate turning back to lead !!

Offline Kristian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: Lions & Cells
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2007, 18:58:33 PM »
We used the Genasun with controler and DC-DC converter to keep the NKE bus happy. Had about 120W of solar panels + generator for the transat. System worked great, very efficient charging with solar and good at keeping the charge. 4 days is a bit of a dream with NKE hydraulic, but the batts could handle regular discharges better than lead. Even if you forget the weight reduction the better properties of the Genasun compared to lead are a big gain. Total price for 2 batts + 4 controlers (2x solar + 2x charge) was about 5.5k€


Offline NicoG

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2005
    • minitransat650.com
Re: Lions & Cells
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2007, 01:19:17 AM »
Yves, for the record, are you involved in putting a Lion on the market ?

You know, if all have the light batteries, you gained nothing except a big dent in your budget,
its the same as a new main and Spi..
But its nice to know you have the lightest stuff possible...
And as I understood from Kristian, its more robust for discharges, what is very nice...


Offline Yves330

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Lions & Cells
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2007, 14:41:53 PM »
Q: are you involved in putting a Lion on the market ?
A: Not easy to see what to do in view of the persisting hesitations of classe mini. All investment will be wasted if rumors of banning are confirmed !!

Except for the price, Li-ion batteries are superior to lead in all aspects : weight, volume, tolerance to deep discharge, charging efficiency, etc...
At the rate of development in li-ion technology in industry, prices will be very decreasing rapidly at the same time as specification will further improve.

Offline Yves330

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Lions & Cells
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2007, 14:48:04 PM »
On the subject of fuel-cell : can anyone indicate me which quantity of methanol was currently embarked for the transat ?

Offline NicoG

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2005
    • minitransat650.com
Re: Lions & Cells
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2007, 18:32:50 PM »
Read clays latest report, nr 8 i believe, www.teamacadia.org he mentions it.

Offline alex

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Lions & Cells
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2007, 01:51:15 AM »

>On the subject of fuel-cell : can anyone indicate me which quantity of methanol was currently embarked for the transat ?

Apparently way too much, judging by the huge pile of full jerrycans in Brazil!

(Since methanol can't be shipped back on the boats, there was a collection for either disposal or another shipping option.)

-Alex