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North American / Re: Chris Pitts Mini 565
« Last post by revision on December 04, 2018, 17:41:46 PM »
I concur with Thomas regarding his assessment of Beyond, as much as I'd like to see her sail again.  Keep us posted with your plans and progress.
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North American / Re: Chris Pitts Mini 565
« Last post by Thomas on November 25, 2018, 17:09:05 PM »
  • I do have some options around here:
    - There is an owner build Didi Mini Mk1 (Plans by Dudley Dix, for sale on the web) for sale about 2h drive from where I live for $11.111 (9750 euro) with an as new carbon mast and boom. Those 2 part alone would be close to the asking price. (http://www.e-y-n.com/boat/~2637.general.html?lang=2)
    It has a few spots the epoxy seems to be delaminating from the deck, but the plywood seems to be okay.
    - There is a Lombard Zero (production boat) for sale by a fellow Belgian for just under $16k ...
  • You can see the Mini at their website (http://coconuts.is/), it is actually a Guillaume Verdier design, but Guillaume works (mostly) for VPLP.

    Jurgen


My suggestion is to go with the Didi Mini if you're looking for a fun boat to build, it will be at about the same level as the Zero or an unproven, damage proto shipped from the US.


As for Guillaume, the times of working mostly for VPLP are certainly over.
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North American / Re: Chris Pitts Mini 565
« Last post by revision on November 25, 2018, 01:54:45 AM »
I emailed Chris to see if he minded me passing along his info.  I guess you could cut the keel and then weld it later, but that would be a question for Chris.
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North American / Re: Chris Pitts Mini 565
« Last post by JurgenP on November 21, 2018, 09:28:43 AM »
He went cedar because he said that it was stiffer than aluminum while being lighter.  RE: the shipping woes, Yes it would prove problematic to ship her in one piece but, depending on your expertise, you might try and remove the keel?  LinkedIn was how I was able to get in touch with Chris, but I don't know what he has for plans and such.  Happy to help get her to you...my interest in purely academic at this point as the broker doesn't seem to want to discuss the price.  I have ENOUGH incomplete projects, most of which are boats.   ;D
I didn't see an official VPLP mini...is this the same design as Arkema 3?
- R


  • Any Mini should normally fit in a 40' Sea Container, in the very worst of cases in a 40' Hi-Cube container, if tilted at the right angle which explains the need for a custom made cradle, and it a bit of a precision job.
  • Still no Reply from / Connect with Chris
  • I doubt I'll take her, though I'm still waiting for a quote to have her shipped, if extremely interesting maybe ... very maybe.
    So normally the keel doesn't need to be removed, but if need be I would assume from the information you proved one could cut the lower half and keep the support structure intact.
  • I do have some options around here:
    - There is an owner build Didi Mini Mk1 (Plans by Dudley Dix, for sale on the web) for sale about 2h drive from where I live for $11.111 (9750 euro) with an as new carbon mast and boom. Those 2 part alone would be close to the asking price. (http://www.e-y-n.com/boat/~2637.general.html?lang=2)
    It has a few spots the epoxy seems to be delaminating from the deck, but the plywood seems to be okay.
    - There is a Lombard Zero (production boat) for sale by a fellow Belgian for just under $16k ...
  • You can see the Mini at their website (http://coconuts.is/), it is actually a Guillaume Verdier design, but Guillaume works (mostly) for VPLP.

    Jurgen
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North American / Re: Chris Pitts Mini 565
« Last post by revision on November 20, 2018, 22:03:54 PM »
He went cedar because he said that it was stiffer than aluminum while being lighter.  RE: the shipping woes, Yes it would prove problematic to ship her in one piece but, depending on your expertise, you might try and remove the keel?  LinkedIn was how I was able to get in touch with Chris, but I don't know what he has for plans and such.  Happy to help get her to you...my interest in purely academic at this point as the broker doesn't seem to want to discuss the price.  I have ENOUGH incomplete projects, most of which are boats.   ;D
I didn't see an official VPLP mini...is this the same design as Arkema 3?
- R
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North American / Re: Chris Pitts Mini 565
« Last post by JurgenP on November 15, 2018, 21:28:08 PM »

Sure.  The discussions I had with Chris were via phone and the info is mostly all in this thread. 


A couple points I may have missed are that he is in Florida now and, and if someone bought the boat and get it to him, he is willing to do the work to fix the boat and build a new mast for the estimated amounts listed above and return her paint ready.  The numbers I listed ($6500 for cedar/carbon mast, $8k-10K in hull work) are direct from Chris based on discussions over the phone regarding her condition.  He hadn't seen pics at that time and did not seem to be aware that she was for sale.


As mentioned, you'd need a trailer on top of that as well as new sails, running rigging, paint, fit out, etc.


I guess the hull work would be mostly manhours and to a lesser extend materials, so if you know how to do it yourself I would guess one could bring that down significantly.
Going for a full carbon mast (SELDEN?) then again would add to the cost. And considering she is overweight, it makes me wonder if that would
One thing that I didn't understand very well is why he used a carbon-covered cedar mast, and a full one at that. Red cedar is good at taking compression when building the mast, but it is heavy!
Something one hardly ever wants and definately for a racing tub like a mini 650.
I never build a mast myself, but I have been wondering if one couldn't just use an aluminium mast as mandril?




We also talked awhile regarding some of the cool nuances of the boat...the roller on the transom is a fairlead for an anchor, the cockpit locker is designed to perfectly hold a honda suitcase generator, etc etc.  He said were he to do it again, he would build the carbon/cedar spar hollow this time to allow for internal halyards and go to one set of spreaders as opposed to 2.


Glad to see Chris and I agree on that mast, both on the weight issue as well as keeping your deck tidy: run as much as possible up that mast internally: halyards, electrical wires (top light, windex, antenna's...)


He said that the boat was built during his time in Canada and that she was designed to do a specific race that runs between Greenland and Iceland...I googled but can't find the name now, but that's why she has high freeboard, etc...the design was for high latitude sailing.  He didn't make it to that race before moving on to bigger boats, but he did set a speed record for circumnavigating Newfoundland.  He ultimately sold the boat to one of the crew from the J-class yachts. 


She wouldn't serve well with that extra weight in the lower lattitudes (like a transat), but she might be interesting around here for something like the "Fastnet"-race.
It can be choppy, and it is not all downwind like the transat.


Regarding the construction. she is tortured okoume ply throughout the hull and deck, with the exception being mahogany in the cockpit, carbon inner and outer skins.  The keel is a 1.5" high carbon steel rod and he highly recommended AGAINST removing it in any way...the keel is integral and gridwork is extensive.  He said any repairs he would recommend doing in place provided that the steel is still usable after the damage.  The keel is a specific foil profile and must remain as such in order for the boat to be fast...I have it written down somewhere.
That keel might have been an issue for transport. She would fit a lot better in a 40' sea container without her keel that with it.
Does that mean that a canting keel would be out of the question or would that work provided that she adheres to (mostly) the same profile.




All in all, my discussions with Chris were very amenable and I believe that whoever takes on the project can count him an ally.  The broker had asked that I tell him any information that I may find out regarding the boat so I emailed him all of this and he should therefor be aware,.  In full disclosure, I also made an offer on the boat but have as of yet not heard back from them.  Unless they moved her, she is inaccessible until the spring as they fill their yard with boats for winter storage.  I am happy to facilitate on this end if you are interested. 


Where are you located?  What was the budget for your friend's new build?  You mentioned not being able to reach Chris...where are you trying to reach him?  Also you mentioned that mini association never officially measured her; I did check with the North American mini class and they said that she was a properly licensed mini.


I tried to connect with Chris on LinkedIn, but no luck yet. What I would have needed the most are any plans/documentation he had of her. Also any documentation/pictures of her being build would have been interesting as well as homebuild boats older than 5 years are exempt of the CE certification as defined in the EU Recreational craft directive (2013/53/EU) but one has to document her being homebuild.
If not she would need to be post-build assessed, cost: roughly $2000.


As for Jay's Mini, I would have to ask him. But I would imagine being limited.
He is a shipwright that works on boats that participate in the Vendee Globe and the Route Du Rhum and the like. And the plans he got for free from VPLP Design (google them if you don't know them), at they are using the boat to test certain new features. So it would pretty much come down to the cost of the materials.


And I'm from Belgium, so shipping cost would be high. Probably more than the boat is worth at this moment. She would need a cradle and be put in a 40' sea container, and loaded either in Newport RI or Baltimore MD.
If you feel up to the task to 'rescue' her, by all means ... Nevertheless the offer to facilitate things on your end was quite nice, especially considering you also made a bid on her.


Sincerely,
Jurgen
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North American / Re: Chris Pitts Mini 565
« Last post by revision on November 15, 2018, 12:56:34 PM »
Sure.  The discussions I had with Chris were via phone and the info is mostly all in this thread. 

A couple points I may have missed are that he is in Florida now and, and if someone bought the boat and get it to him, he is willing to do the work to fix the boat and build a new mast for the estimated amounts listed above and return her paint ready.  The numbers I listed ($6500 for cedar/carbon mast, $8k-10K in hull work) are direct from Chris based on discussions over the phone regarding her condition.  He hadn't seen pics at that time and did not seem to be aware that she was for sale.

As mentioned, you'd need a trailer on top of that as well as new sails, running rigging, paint, fit out, etc.

We also talked awhile regarding some of the cool nuances of the boat...the roller on the transom is a fairlead for an anchor, the cockpit locker is designed to perfectly hold a honda suitcase generator, etc etc.  He said were he to do it again, he would build the carbon/cedar spar hollow this time to allow for internal halyards and go to one set of spreaders as opposed to 2.

He said that the boat was built during his time in Canada and that she was designed to do a specific race that runs between Greenland and Iceland...I googled but can't find the name now, but that's why she has high freeboard, etc...the design was for high latitude sailing.  He didn't make it to that race before moving on to bigger boats, but he did set a speed record for circumnavigating Newfoundland.  He ultimately sold the boat to one of the crew from the J-class yachts. 

Regarding the construction. she is tortured okoume ply throughout the hull and deck, with the exception being mahogany in the cockpit, carbon inner and outer skins.  The keel is a 1.5" high carbon steel rod and he highly recommended AGAINST removing it in any way...the keel is integral and gridwork is extensive.  He said any repairs he would recommend doing in place provided that the steel is still usable after the damage.  The keel is a specific foil profile and must remain as such in order for the boat to be fast...I have it written down somewhere.
All in all, my discussions with Chris were very amenable and I believe that whoever takes on the project can count him an ally.  The broker had asked that I tell him any information that I may find out regarding the boat so I emailed him all of this and he should therefor be aware,.  In full disclosure, I also made an offer on the boat but have as of yet not heard back from them.  Unless they moved her, she is inaccessible until the spring as they fill their yard with boats for winter storage.  I am happy to facilitate on this end if you are interested. 

Where are you located?  What was the budget for your friend's new build?  You mentioned not being able to reach Chris...where are you trying to reach him?  Also you mentioned that mini association never officially measured her; I did check with the North American mini class and they said that she was a properly licensed mini.

- R 
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North American / Re: Chris Pitts Mini 565
« Last post by JurgenP on November 14, 2018, 12:43:55 PM »
Thank for that reply, Revision.


Would it be a terrible burned to mail me those discussions you had with Chris as wel?


Sincerely,
Jurgen
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North American / Re: Chris Pitts Mini 565
« Last post by revision on November 14, 2018, 12:25:24 PM »
To my knowledge, she is still for sale at Brewer.  I would imagine they may be busy hauling boats this time of year...if she IS still there, she's now buried in the back behind about 80 boats.  The broker had asked for any information I may find, so I did email him back regarding the discussions that I had with Chris, but he never got back to me via email.  If you call, he's pretty good about calling back.

You are correct in that Chris didn't race her in the transat...he made the jump to Class 40 before he got there and his intention was always for a far northern race, hence the "radical" design cues.  I drive up and down the coast a couple times a year for holidays and such so I may cruise by RI at some point this winter and see if she's still in place.  Hopefully they shifted her weight so that she drains...
- R
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North American / Re: Chris Pitts Mini 565
« Last post by JurgenP on November 14, 2018, 12:07:03 PM »
Did Daniel finally get this boat? As far as I can tell she is still on the market, though Brewer Yachts is not in a hurry to reply to my inquiries.


A little over a year ago a friend of mine started building a new Mini designed by VPLP design (France).
From that time I have been considering to do the same, but after finding this girl on yachtworld I was thinking that she might be a good compromise between the time needed to build, budget and performance.
I assumed it would take a lot less time to restore her than build a new one from scratch. And the keel was not necessary an problem, it might as well be seen as an opportunity to make the move to a canting keel ...
However after the pictures I have seen I'm not so sure anymore ... She might not be worth the shipping price.


I have also been trying to get a hold of Chris Pitts, so far to no avail.
I also requested the class Mini 650 association for any documentation they have on her:
they have nothing, she never was officially measured and  hence also never (officially) raced.


I would welcome any additional information on her beyond what is in this thread and on the Yachtworld site, feel free to contact me.


Sincerely,
Jurgen
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