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Mini Forums => English => Topic started by: andreas on November 02, 2008, 17:35:15 PM

Title: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: andreas on November 02, 2008, 17:35:15 PM
Anybody here who as any kind of experience with setting a mast without a crane ? Using a tripod of 3 Alu tubes ?
Thanks a lot,

Andreas, POGO-2, GER-682, UmpaLumpa
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: cifrian on November 02, 2008, 21:46:12 PM
Hi:

we used to set our fist class mast placing the boat between two other sailing boats, with masts high enough, and with their halyards raise it (we knot the halyards a little above the center of gravity of the mast) and place it.

Excuse me for the english.

Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: Atlantic Project on November 03, 2008, 11:51:57 AM
Anybody here who as any kind of experience with setting a mast without a crane ? Using a tripod of 3 Alu tubes ?
Thanks a lot,

Andreas, POGO-2, GER-682, UmpaLumpa

 As Cifrian says, place the boat between two other minis, and raise the mas with their mainsail halyards... seemed pretty easy to do. Haven't done it personally yet, but saw it a lot of times...

 Regards
  Pedro
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: acadia on November 04, 2008, 01:55:18 AM
I have placed the mast in my proto a number of times using what we call here in the US, a "gin pole". Basically it is an aluminum mast section that is about 7 meters long...the base of the pole is placed on the foredeck and then a rope headstay and sidestays are rigged. A line through a Harken block at the top of the gin pole is then used to hoist up the mast.
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: Geronimo on November 04, 2008, 21:52:51 PM
Hallo Andreas,

habe bei a.w.niemeyer folgendes gesehen (wird bei Folkebooten eingesetzt):

   
AWN Multilift-System
Dieses neuartige System ist mobil und macht sie unabhängig von Kran und einer vielköpfigen helfenden Crew! Feste Konstruktionen werden überflüssig - das klappbare Teleskopgestell lässt sich ausserdem platzsparend verstauen. Vergessen Sie Mastkran-Termine und Warteschleifen im Hafen! Endlich können Sie unabhängig Ihren Mast setzen und legen, wann und wo Sie wollen. Der große Vorteil des neuen Systems: auch durchgesteckte Masten lassen sich ohne große Hilfe sicher und gerade ziehen. Feste und lästige Jütt-Konstruktionen an Deck sind überflüssig, das neuartige Sys-tem ist mobil und lässt sich leicht an Deck oder an Land lagern. Zwei mit einem Klappmechanismus verbundene Teleskop-Rohre werden mittels Achter- und Bugleinen an Deck fest aufgestellt, an diesem Gestell wird der Mast mit einer Talje bewegt. Die Länge lässt sich dem optimalen Hebepunkt anpassen. Das erhöht die Sicherheit und macht das Handling leichter. Der mögliche Hub beträgt 6,50 m bei einem maximalen Rigggewicht von ca. 120 kg. Zusammengeschoben messen die Teleskop-Rohre nur ca. 2,6 m. Ohne Talje.


Artikelnummer: 310409

Preis: 319,00 EUR

http://www.awn-shop.de/shopv2/empfehlung/schnellsuche/310409/produktinformationen.html

Gruß Rolf
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: andreas on November 04, 2008, 23:50:57 PM
Thank you !
It seems the "gin-pole" is more a good idea with a mast thats not going through the deck ? It have to be 2 poles, right ? The mast has to swing somewhere...

The AWN system is originally from COMPASS (http://www.compass24.de/cgi-bin/abnetshop.pl?ARTNR=112540) and seems a good tool. 299,- Euros,..a bit cheaper than AWN.

In my harbour I would have to pay 230 (!!!) Euros to take the mast down with the little crane... (boat is on a trailer with stepped mast..)

Thank you very much all !

Andreas
http://www.compass24.de/produktbilder2/1/gross/0112540_r2_FS06ig.jpg
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: sailor66 on November 05, 2008, 00:25:21 AM
For Echells and j24s the typical gin pole setup is a chunk of broken mast that reaches slightly higher than the distance from the mast bottom to the spreaders (single spreader rigs). It is only one pole so as the mast is lifted off the deck and out of the deck opening the bottom of the mast is pushed to one side and then lowered. This means it ends up slightly crooked on the deck but not so much as to be a problem.
On Brossard in the TransAt, I think he used his bow sprit in the same fashion to restep his rig after the forestay chainplate failed and it fell down.


Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: Sam Mini-Sailor.US on November 06, 2008, 04:12:32 AM
Andreas,

Gin Pole is single pole triangulated with line to front and sides of boat. Then lifting line to mast and lift away. With mini masts being light, I lay the base of mast forward and swing into place as the rest of the mast is raised.

Sam
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: andreas on November 09, 2008, 23:33:03 PM
whoooo,...sounds good. I might try that. I will find a piece of mast somewhere and tie some ropes to the top of it,... in as many directions as possible to stabilize it. And then tie a block to the top and lift the mast out. Need lots of ropes to be on the save side. Boat is on a trailer. High up and a bit shaky...
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: andreas on November 11, 2008, 00:37:43 AM
And what has the GIN to do with it ?

?

(-:
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: Sam Mini-Sailor.US on November 11, 2008, 16:22:16 PM
And what has the GIN to do with it ?

?

(-:

Andreas,

Not sure why it is call that, guess the original designer of the pole was drinking Gin and got brave enough to try it to lift something.

Gin pole is use to assemble radio towers, my first exposure to using one.

Sam
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: sharkbait on November 11, 2008, 16:54:01 PM
From the American Heritage® Dictionary:

n. Any of several machines or devices, especially:

A machine for hoisting or moving heavy objects.
A pile driver.
A snare or trap for game.
A pump operated by a windmill.
A cotton gin.
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: singlewhip on November 11, 2008, 22:32:07 PM
Ok, this is starting to get interesting.  Maybe the solution to this problem should be a required for all mini  sailors.
For one, you also have the boom,  then you have the main sheet and various blocks, you have the bow sprit,  you have seemingly miles of rope, line, etc., you have a big roll of duct  tape (or should have), you have various winches all over the place, and now you have a bottle of  gin.  If you  can't figure out  a way to put your mast up by yourself, maybe you should  not go out  on the ocean  alone.
Just play around with it a little  bit and you will  find  it is  not very hard  to do. Have fun.

Kevin
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: singlewhip on November 12, 2008, 21:10:58 PM
Sorry, I did not mean one should not ask questions on this forum.  I think it is the best place around to find good information.

With that in mind:  Once the mast is in place or using a similar boat, write down and keep the measurements of each shroud and stay. That way you can make up a replacement that works quickly.

Kevin
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: andreas on November 30, 2008, 14:44:50 PM
Hello everybody !

1st : Thanks to all who have answered to my questions !
2nd : It works !!!

I wasn't keen to pay 230,- (!!!) Euros in Port Pin Rolland for using the mast-crane only 10 minutes. So I told myself
I HAVE TO find another solution. I found an old Dinghy mast with all the wires still connected to it and with the
help of a friend I managed to upright this Gin-Pole-Mast on my boat which was standing on the trailer already. The gin-pole
was to long. I guess 6,5 Meter would be enough. So we opened the hatch and poked it through the opening using a
piece of wood to prevent scratches inside. This gave me another possibility to fix the mast at deck-level and make
it even more stabil. After the Shrouds where fixed it seemed rock-solid and we attached a rope and started lifting.
To our surprise it was very smooth and easy ! The mast came out easily and it seemed even less risky than a crane because
the boat wasn't drifting. I was first worrying about the distance between the pole and the mast. The mast could have gone the
wrong direction when pulling it up. But for some reason it just went fine !

Cheers !

Andreas  GER682, UmpaLumpa
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: NicoG on December 01, 2008, 23:27:45 PM
Good news, can you take some photos next time ?
Can make an article about it.. Think more people are interested...
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: KeithW on December 04, 2008, 12:20:08 PM
On this subject does anybody know how much the Pogo 2 mast weighes??

Keith - pogo2 440
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: NicoG on December 04, 2008, 19:20:24 PM
Look in tho rules, I forgot the exact nr, but minimum 2.2 Kg a meter for the tube weight.
Add rigging and ropes. I believe it was around 35 kilo or so. I carried them around alone.
.
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: andraz510 on December 05, 2008, 13:51:57 PM
Sounds a bit light. I think alu mast on 419 weighted around 40kg. I could be mistaking though. This is with running rigging aswell off course.

Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: andreas on December 10, 2008, 21:29:19 PM
With all the wires and ropes and spreaders etc it must be about 50 KG
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: r.finn on December 10, 2008, 23:38:26 PM
Sounds about right.  My old ali mast weighed 37kg.  That was tube only, no standing or running rigging. 
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: Cyrus on December 21, 2008, 02:29:01 AM
We also use a gin pole for the J80 mast which is probably around the same size as the Mini mast and is also keel stepped so it also drops through the coach roof.

Now you have done it, the next thing to consider is windy days and times when you have to rig or drop with a side wind. What we have done is made timber base plate for the gin pole / mast. This locates into the base of the gin pole and then has three ropes so that it secures the base of the pole to the boat. This really increases the stability of the gin pole.

The section of rope which lifts the mast, from the first spreaders is in two pieces tied together to form a loop. One end is much longer so that it hangs down. Once the mast has been lifted back in you can then reach up to pull the loop down and remove the gin pole  without going up the fitted but unstayed mast.

Some of the local boats are using our gin pole on 12th Jan. If I'm around I'll take some photos and can forward them to anyone who's interested.

Kind regards and Hi by the way, new to your site today.

Cyrus
Title: Re: Mast setting without using a crane...
Post by: NicoG on December 21, 2008, 09:27:34 AM
Cyrus, send them please to me. And welcome...