Unofficial Mini Forum

Ocean racing general => Class 9.50 => Topic started by: NicoG on January 14, 2007, 12:55:51 PM

Title: Re: open 30 in 2008
Post by: NicoG on January 14, 2007, 12:55:51 PM
James, the problem is, there is a difference in budget between a 30 and a 40 :)
And a 650 can be to small. So its just waiting for a concept like a 30 fter.
Could be the open 30, the 950 or something like that.
Maybe tHe Figaro2 is not popular because you do not want to have an expensive campaign in a Jenneau, just not good for you image :) and your affraid they are secondhand to bad....

Same for the  j105 and jenneau3200, except for second hand bad... and that J one is not really race looking too, and small...

At the  moment my money is on the 950, as some good sailors step in....

Title: Re: open 30 in 2008
Post by: Charles Bertrand on January 14, 2007, 13:35:18 PM
As said Leo, the 9.50 rule is coming up.
I had people from all around europe asking for some details...
whether such a class is likely to mainly kick off in France, it's good to see some interest from other places (Benelux, Spain...)
As far as the racing is concern i think we can expect some activity at least on the Atlantic and down in the med...

There should be more news coming up soon...

Title: Re: open 30 in 2008
Post by: milaneze on January 20, 2007, 06:40:28 AM
Hi Bertrand

I would like to get some more info about The 950 please.
When would be the rulles for this class officialy done ?
I am keen in build low cost budget boat but wish to have performance like protos in minis. I have seen few pictures of open 30 in argentina-very nice. Thougt to build one in fibre glass I could fit in budget of 60K ?  I am trying to find out more interested people on forum, is no point sail just by my own? 
I think I understand quite well your idea of 950 and like it. Would 950 be something like shrink POGO40 with waterballast? Or on base of the rules you can have all sort of designeres and competitors which would look like class mini proto now ?
Title: Re: open 30 in 2008
Post by: Charles Bertrand on January 20, 2007, 12:09:05 PM

You are right, the 9.50s will probably be some kind of scaled down Class 40s (pogo 40). Any competitor could sail a boat designed to the rule by any designer. The idea seems to have a boat that features the same objectives of performance as the mini 650s, but that would also offer more internal volume while staying as affordable as possible. I have no clue yet of when the rule is going to be fixed finally, but i think it is a general wish to see that happen soon.

However, here are some of the main rule parameters as specified in the latest development of the rule (might still change slightly):

Length max : 9.50 m
Beam max : 3.75 m
Draft max : 2.40 m
Displacement min : 2600 kg
Mast height max : 15.50 m
Bowsprit max : 3 m from bow
Water Ballasts: 900 L. to be split symmetrically, or a volume equal to 900 x (3.75 / Bmax) L. for a narrower boat
Fixed keel and no more than two mobile appendages
Material restriction should be similar to the Class40s (ie : carbon, aramid, honeycomb cores and prepregs are forbidden in the construction of the hull/deck/structures - carbon masts likely to be allowed - titanium forbidden everywhere...)

May i ask where and when you wish to build such boat(s)?

Let me know if you can find some other interested people, i could set up a mailing list and update all those non-French-but-interested on the latest developments. There should be a conference tonight in La Grande Motte (south of France) about the rule, to exchange ideas and point of views...

Hope this answers your questions,



Title: Re: open 30 in 2008
Post by: Charles Bertrand on January 20, 2007, 12:10:21 PM
Also, if you wanna see a couple of pictures of my 9.50 project, check out :
Title: Re: open 30 in 2008
Post by: ORNA on January 20, 2007, 15:42:57 PM
Very impressive my freind!
You have a great start there. Do you have any prospective builders?
Title: Re: open 30 in 2008
Post by: Charles Bertrand on January 20, 2007, 16:17:12 PM
email me your contact details if you want me to send you some more info... ;)
charles alt fox-tech
Title: Re: open 30 in 2008
Post by: NicoG on January 20, 2007, 19:25:10 PM

we can setup a mailinglist from yahoo.
Or keep posting here.
If it really gets starting i can make a 950 forum...

Cheerio Leo
Title: Re: open 30 in 2008
Post by: Diabolo on January 22, 2007, 14:49:10 PM
Any feedback from the presentation in la Grande Motte ?

Title: Re: open 30 in 2008
Post by: Charles Bertrand on January 22, 2007, 15:14:41 PM

My associate, Bernard Mallaret was there and is preparing a written feedback of the presentation. I'll publish it on this forum as soon as he’ll send it to me, probably tomorrow. From the first echoes I have had, a couple of professionals turned up though the conference had been hardly advertised. Yet, most of the people attending were local sailors.

Stay tuned for more news...

Title: Re: open 30 in 2008
Post by: Thomas on January 22, 2007, 17:57:04 PM
Wondeful, looking forward to hear more from it. Merci, Charles!

Title: Re: open 30 in 2008
Post by: NicoG on January 22, 2007, 18:18:51 PM
Some background, probably correct:
Vidal is an old Ostar and mini sailor, who was director or something like that of Le Grande MOtte.
A yachtclub on the MEd, organized mini races, and there is a Figaro school.
Next to that he is/was president or something high up of the French marina association.

As you can see, he has the contacts.
Title: Re: open 30 in 2008
Post by: Charles Bertrand on January 22, 2007, 19:21:56 PM
Hi, here is the report from B. Mallaret who attended the presentation:

Debriefing of the Jauge 9.50 presentation at the Yacht Club de la Grande Motte (20/01/2007)

To start with, JM Vidal explained the reasons that lead to the creation of this new rule:
   On one side the 6.50s:   - are extreme by their dimensions
                                        - are not suitable enough for cruising
                                        - getting able to race the transat has become more and more difficult due to the number of entrants
   On the other side, the Class 40 that could be an alternative require too much financial
        investment for many people.

Rapidly, two types of potential owners/skippers emerge:

   Sailors coming from the mini 6.50s, who want bigger boats.
   Sailors coming from monotype series, who want simple boats with some design liberty.

Next, the several possible features of the rule have been exposed, notably:

         - Design Category: It seems that the management of offshore races is far easier if the yachts comply with the design category                 
           A. The choice of the Class A or B might affect some of the design parameters, such as the minimum rule displacement. (rule
           light displacement being 2600 kg for now)

         - Bowsprit: the question is, how many axis of freedom should be allowed?
           Non-surprisingly, mini sailors argued in favour of a rotating sprit whereas the others were more favourable to a simple single
           forward/aft running sprit.

Other main features were highlighted but they were not much discussed as most of the people present agreed (with the rule and together)

Then the question of the policy of the class has been raised:

- What kind of essential decisions shall the Class take so that the wish to create simple and affordable high performance yachts becomes a reality?

To give some possible answers, Bernard Mallaret suggested that the rule could create some prototype yachts on which some of the elements are monotype and produced industrially so as to bring significant cost savings.

Example: the rule could impose (some of) the following elements
-   Carbon Mast profile(tube only)
-   Carbon Bowsprit (sprit only)
-   Rudders (blades and stocks)
-   Keel foils and lead bulbs

As most of the people reacted against the latter suggestion, a compromise was advanced: the rule could impose a carbon made core beam of the keel, on which the designers could fit a profiled shaping of their own.
(Please note that these are only suggestions and no decision has been taken yet)

To finish with, and talking about the costs of these yachts, a target has still not been fixed although this is very probably the decisive element that can yield the success of that rule/these yachts and on which a preliminary agreement should start.


(Translated from French by C. Bertrand)
Title: Re: open 30 in 2008
Post by: Charles Bertrand on January 22, 2007, 19:27:01 PM
Leo, to be more precise, La Grande Motte is a coastal city near Montpellier (med coast) and indeed the yacht club also hosts a Figaro training pole. I think some minis are now gathering there as well to take part in the training.