Author Topic: accessibility of the raft  (Read 13770 times)

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Offline andreas

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accessibility of the raft
« on: January 30, 2008, 11:56:11 AM »
Dear Mini-sailors,

these are my suggestions that I have sent to the class Mini some weeks ago :

through to the fact that there seems to be a change in the rules for the easy use of the liferaft in an emergency case, to
improve the accessibility of the raft, I want to make a simple suggestment.

This suggestment is based on the studys of several emergency situations in 2007 and before 2007 and also a result of my own attempts
to move the raft through the narrow opening in the back of my MINI.

my suggestion is :

keep the Raft where it is according to the 2007 rules ( but even more forward..) but require a technical feature in future
to make the raft slide easily without a great afford of human power with the following technical changes which are very
easy and cheap to realise without a weight gain or anything :

The basic :
A block and a rope that lifts the raft up when pulled by hand from behind or sidewards from the location of the raft. The raft comes up
and is easy to swing (push) back towards the hole in the transom. To make it slide a little bit easier over the rear edge underneath the opening a little
triangle shaped piece of foam in the rear would help.

When the boat is capsized you can easy hook the pulley into another eyepad in the floor of the upside-down boat - bottom. Same story : one hand lifts the liferaft up quite easy, the other hand is used to push the beast through the narrow hole in the transom.

As a matter of fact I think personnally the best location for the raft is right under the companion way,...for 3 reasons :

1.) accessibility, from outside through the companion-way
2.) accessibility, from the inside through the tunnel to the emergency hatch
3.) weight optimised for the MINI. Weight in the back is a pain in the butt  (-;

But I understand that this is not going to be the case.... so

« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 23:02:10 PM by andreas »

Offline NicoG

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Re: accessibility of the raft
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2008, 14:21:28 PM »
not bad, I think we will see more solutions. Specially when they are really going to test the 10 second rule. P2 has the advance of having the NKE on one rudder out of the centerline :)

Offline Zimonem

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Re: accessibility of the raft
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2008, 15:56:40 PM »
not bad, I think we will see more solutions. Specially when they are really going to test the 10 second rule. P2 has the advance of having the NKE on one rudder out of the centerline :)

another very amusing feature will be if they test whether the skipper can get out through the hatch... thre were several persons in 2007  i am sure they can't get out of the hatch...

Offline NicoG

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Re: accessibility of the raft
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2008, 17:15:44 PM »
Cameras ready then :)
I am surprised there is no minimum hatch dimension in place (other then you have to gget a liferaft out, have seen some very big liferafts behind small hatches)

Offline IAnfang

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Re: accessibility of the raft
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2008, 22:35:42 PM »
Thats the Situation on a P2 with a Plastimo Raft (not the yellow one on the Top).
You could Sail like this without loosing it I guess.



The Idea to construct a light foam (stratifie) glider in the same angle like the Raft on the Picture, so it will move.
What do you think, will it be enough?


Or any other Ideas.
Thank you
Immo
Und immer eine handbreit Wasser in der Bilge.

Offline andreas

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Re: accessibility of the raft
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2008, 22:38:00 PM »
another very amusing feature will be if they test whether the skipper can get out through the hatch... thre were several persons in 2007  i am sure they can't get out of the hatch...

Oh, thats easy,,

you just stick all the red rockets and flares in the rocket-launcher poop hole at the rear end of your body, light it.  and then shhhhhhhhhhuuuuu........
pow...... off you go with the speed of light through the hatch. Just a big head ache and a burned exhaust is the result.

)-;
« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 22:48:17 PM by andreas »

Offline andreas

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Re: accessibility of the raft
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2008, 22:45:02 PM »
What do you think, will it be enough?

And what when the boat is upside down Immo ? 10 seconds for the raft, 5 seconds to light the engine in your butt. And another 5 to fly out...


No, but seriously to get through to where my raft is stored in the boat, I would have to go sideways along the berth and cut away the net from the side first and then try to get a good grip and push the thing out. Climbing after it when the hatch is open, the boat capsized, water splashing inside sounds like suicide to me. I rather wait until the upside is up again and then pull it through the entrance area.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 23:32:13 PM by andreas »

Offline geoffd

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Re: accessibility of the raft
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2008, 14:24:38 PM »
not bad, I think we will see more solutions. Specially when they are really going to test the 10 second rule. P2 has the advance of having the NKE on one rudder out of the centerline :)

another very amusing feature will be if they test whether the skipper can get out through the hatch... thre were several persons in 2007  i am sure they can't get out of the hatch...

Well - guys, I can get out of mine - I've tried -it's not comfortable and a little claustrophobic, but panic and adrenalin have a way of getting you to do stuff faster than you normally would...

I'll be very interested to see how this gets tested - 10 seconds to remove the step (Pogo 2), get over the battery boxes, push the liferaft out (what, we're going to get asked to throw our "do not immerse until you want to inflate" liferaft valises into the harbour???) and then get out after that?

It'd be a lot easier, and probably safer, if we could move the battery and anchor boxes up towards the mast. Better weight distribution, too, but I suspect that's a modification that Structures may not approve of.

Also, I'm veeerrryyy interested in the "10 second" rule and why this timeframe was chosen.

"May we all live in interesting times"

Geoff D - 6' 6" (or 198cm depending on where you live)

AUS 659


Offline NicoG

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Re: accessibility of the raft
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2008, 18:04:50 PM »
A P2 is not one design, so unless they note it now in the Pogo2 Class rules you are free to move the batteries, as long you fit them secure and in a box.
But you have to check the P2 class rules, somewhere on the asso Pogo site...

Offline geoffd

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Re: accessibility of the raft
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2008, 18:59:24 PM »
Ah, thanks Leo, I'll have a chat to Charles and Tanguy about this next week and check the rules. Could solve more than one problem.

Offline KeithW

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Re: accessibility of the raft
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2008, 20:10:35 PM »
Geoff

Have you had a chance to work this one out yet, did you have that chat with Charles and Tanguy??

Keith - Pogo2 440

P.S: Are you still thinking about doing your qualifier on or about UK fastnet time, I am thinking about having a go a few days after the fastnet weather permitting, starting and finishing Plymouth. PM if you want to discuss.

Offline geoffd

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Re: accessibility of the raft
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2008, 10:22:04 AM »
Hi Keith,

Charles is talking about this with Structures, should have a solution fairly quickly for P2s.

I've entered the UK Fastnet and the Select - I'm going to try and get the qualifier done before the UK Fastnet, depends on a) time and b) the weather. Drop me a note at my work e-mail address to discuss.

Cheers

Geoff

Offline KeithW

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Re: accessibility of the raft
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2008, 14:20:56 PM »
Anybody got any further ideas on the best way to do this??

Keith

Offline geoffd

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Re: accessibility of the raft
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2008, 17:06:50 PM »
Hi Keith,

I'm heading out to Pornichet this weekend, and Charles is back from holidays so I'm anticipating that he'll have an answer for the P2, as he's been in discussions with Structures and the Classe. We'll be discussing the rule changes and other modifications we want to do, so I'll see what he says and give you a call on Monday.

Cheers

Geoff.

Offline IAnfang

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Re: accessibility of the raft
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2008, 10:33:35 AM »
Hi,
there are new Informations available for a RAFT Solution for Pogo2.
Structures offers a so called Toboggan, enables you to store you Raft higher, on the same hight like the Hatch.
Best regards
Immo


Und immer eine handbreit Wasser in der Bilge.