Author Topic: Mini max racing (30 june)  (Read 3513 times)

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Offline NicoG

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Mini max racing (30 june)
« on: June 27, 2007, 20:32:28 PM »

Offline NicoG

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Re: Mini max racing (30 june)
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2007, 13:14:03 PM »
Results first leg:
 Port Camargue/Ajaccio

Mini 6.50 proto
1. 650 Jason  (the nice looking Bertrand with new owner and sailing with designer)
2. 258 Tip Top , Manuard
3. 567 Météor , Manuard
4. 476 Stratus ,  Garmond ?¿?¿?¿ curious what design he copied :)

I like the Bertrand design, just because he designed minis for yrs but is fairly unknown.
Almost all performed well, at least the designs i know of him (109, 650, Inkzone)
258 is the first Manuard proto, 567 will be pissed to be behind this very crudely build proto :)

1. 671 Bahia  ,Tiptop
2. 538 Jolly Roger, P2
3. 677 Comsom ,Zero
4. 330 Oryx, SC (mentioned as 320 in blog results list, but that is LopLop)
5. 274 Tête de mule, SC
6. 657 Team CNTL, P2
7. 641 La Solidarité Mutualiste, Tiptop
8. 475 Plach'Coant ,Pogo1
9. 320 Lop Lop, Pogo1
10. 627 Dijs.net-2, Ginto

Nice mix of finishing types, Tiptop first, good for them.
Then P2, of course, then Zero (who finally starting to perform just when I quit the factory building them, Cest la vie) and the SuperCalins again.

Living near the Med and on a smaller budget, I would buy a SuperCalin...

Offline Adrian

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Re: Mini max racing (30 june)
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2007, 18:59:55 PM »
Hi All,

The first leg result is very good for the Zero.  Joel Miro is one of the new partners building the Zero at L'Escales.  The first Zero builder to be an active racer - he owns #27 & had a 5th place finish (out of 20 Series) in the Mini Lions last month.  We are looking forward to having those small extra racing tweaks developed for the Zero - so Leo you can be happy the boat's optimization is still moving forward.

Re the Super Calin, a new demo boat hits the water in the Med at the end of this month.  This is going to be a very interesting question -  is the new full beam, glass SC2, faster than the narrow beam (2,78m) wood SC?  Remember the great debate over the Owen Clarke design for the USMini?  Pity we lost that in the archives.  OCD finally opted for the 3.0m beam but said in some (several?) conditions the narrow beam was better.

Adrian

Offline NicoG

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Re: Mini max racing (30 june)
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2007, 20:45:22 PM »
Whoa, i was a very active racer, semi professional, till i worked for the Zero, then it stopped, big laugh.

This is the second Zero that raced CM races that has a reasonable good sailor on board. Maier did good in the Grand Prix Italy, first place.
So at least i ws not to stupid to think that the Zero was good.
It just always lagged development in comparison too the P2, I am afraid the new owners can not make that good. Unless they think of Zero2 introduction with chines before Pogo2 does it.
But they did not contact me, i know Miro, thats stupid in my opinion, I know the Zero the best of all people and only one email away.
Tiptop has the same problems, big discounts, new alliance, rumored to be way to heavy...

Wider is faster, except in the light, and the Med can be light, a lot.
I hope you can send me as much info of the SC2 as possible.

Offline Adrian

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Re: Mini max racing (30 june)
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2007, 09:43:41 AM »
I checked the race site & no times posted - I was told that the Zero Comsun, sailed by the new builder, finished the Mini Max in 2nd place in the Series class.

So this may be the year of the Zero getting some very good results.

Does any one have any news & official times?

Adrian

Offline NicoG

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Re: Mini max racing (30 june)
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2007, 17:24:53 PM »
CHeck out:
http://www.societe-nautique.com/
Classement etc etc...

He was third of 11.

Not be nasty, but as long as Zeros are not performing top in the more well known races, it stays a underdog. I mean more like the MIni Fastnet, Transcascogne.
And then multiple top 3 positions.
I know it can :)

Offline Atlantic Project

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Re: Mini max racing (30 june)
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2007, 17:43:03 PM »
Well...

 Not difficult to accomplish, just have to go there and sail... i know there are a few zeros with level enough to sail in top 3 positions. Not much zeros out of Spain though, and even here few of them sailing actively Mini races; we need more time.

 Numbers against us, but we shall overcome...


 Pedro

Offline NicoG

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Re: Mini max racing (30 june)
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2007, 20:42:29 PM »
Pedro,

i do not totally agree with you in that,
There are so many well funded P2 campaign, and only one Zero i know of has enough money (but sailor i do not know his level) and one with a good skipper, but that one stays in Italy :)
Miguel can become very good if he can seriously train a few yrs.

The Zero will need a team effort (more boats top level and train together) to accomplish regularly placements in the top3 of serious races.
But Miro looks good now, give him another two yrs on the Zero and he will be top I hope.

The difference between the MEd and the Atlantic is:
much less tactics involved in the MEd. So to perform well in the Atlantic, you need to step up one gear.

Oh, and the boats have to be build light light light.
If i would buy a new Zero or Tiptop or Pogo2 etc, i would put into the contract a maximum weight.
Pogo will never do that, so that is a point were the others can gain.
Better price the boat 2000 Euro more, and guaranteed to be light. Then cheaper and heavier...
Or fluctuating in weight....

Offline Adrian

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Re: Mini max racing (30 june)
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2007, 21:21:26 PM »
The Mini Max website does not work for me - No data on any of the pull down menu options.  French do not like the Mac or ? ..

If someone can cut & paste all the Mini Max results & times I would appreciate it - Elaine & Craig had a good race last year - I wonder if this year was faster?

Adrian


Offline Atlantic Project

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Re: Mini max racing (30 june)
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2007, 12:21:19 PM »
Pedro,

i do not totally agree with you in that,
There are so many well funded P2 campaign, and only one Zero i know of has enough money (but sailor i do not know his level) and one with a good skipper, but that one stays in Italy :)
Miguel can become very good if he can seriously train a few yrs.

 That's why i say that we need more time... training is the basis of everything, knowing the boat, sails, what u can or can not, what are the best and worst conditions, and making ur mind strong against. The boat is important but if ur mind is not as strong as the boat u wont pick the edge...

The Zero will need a team effort (more boats top level and train together) to accomplish regularly placements in the top3 of serious races.
But Miro looks good now, give him another two yrs on the Zero and he will be top I hope.

 I know Miro is good, been sailing against him, thats why i know there's not a gap there. Same boat ( his a bit lighter, but this u will know better than me Leo), exactly same sails ( his being a copy of mine, just small difference on big kite ). The one and only difference here is experience... his been sailing solo or double handed for years ( he's very strong of mind, and personally think he has what it takes ) i agree it's trainig what we lack here, very difficult tho change mind from reacting to others decissions to set your own decissions.
 For sure it's not the same a top 3 in Mini Fastnet than in Triangle du soleil, but somewhere u have to start, and again, i agree with u when u say training together but it will take a bit more to be accomplished, maybe this winter will be able to set some serious training seasons... sometimes i feel as if i were fighting against windmills.  lol


The difference between the MEd and the Atlantic is:
much less tactics involved in the MEd. So to perform well in the Atlantic, you need to step up one gear.

Oh, and the boats have to be build light light light.
If i would buy a new Zero or Tiptop or Pogo2 etc, i would put into the contract a maximum weight.
Pogo will never do that, so that is a point were the others can gain.
Better price the boat 2000 Euro more, and guaranteed to be light. Then cheaper and heavier...
Or fluctuating in weight....



 Sure, tides, currents and everyting... harder to sail in atlantic, more tactics involved, but first we have to go the easy way and when it's mastered then go to the Ocean.

 Build a lighter boat... yep sure!! i would gladly have payed 5000€ for less weight instead of having to pay 20000€ now for a refit, though i don't know if i would pay for it or go for a new boat instead...

 Pedro
« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 12:26:09 PM by Atlantic Project »

Offline NicoG

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Re: Mini max racing (30 june)
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2007, 18:48:00 PM »
You know i was fighting with the owners of the Zero yard to keep improving the product.
I was very bold with the new owners, build them as light as in the papers, and good or I move out.
I made one very good Zero, that was spot on target weight, could be his.
And you know, i am not working there anymore :)

I hope the new owners will do better, but i doubt it.
So thinking of buying a Zero, say it must weigh 1024kg, (ex batteries, ex options, but with mast and rudders etc) and if more then 5% over, deal will not go on.
Same with Tiptop, actually with all of them...

Pedro, relax, you should not fight, Miro should, he is now the owner of the company.
Pay some sailors to get top results. its that easy, and critic will end :)

Offline POS

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Re: Mini max racing (30 june)
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2007, 14:34:44 PM »



Nice mix of finishing types, Tiptop first, good for them.
Then P2, of course, then Zero (who finally starting to perform just when I quit the factory building them, Cest la vie) and the SuperCalins again.